00:06	Here we go again.
00:12	$
00:25	My mouse is not working anymore. $ It is a - when I put it in it's it's going to beep beep beep.
00:27	$
00:28	Oh.
00:29	Okay.
00:34	Oh, I got a nice little screen he- over here.
00:37	$
00:38	$ I (got) like this big black border uh on every side.
00:46	Okay.
00:48	Mm, okay.
00:48	Everybody ready?
00:49	I'll fix it. Yeah, whatever.
00:50	Yeah, it's okay.
00:50	Welcome at the functional design meeting, again presented by (Maarten).
00:56	$
00:57	Uh this is the agenda, the opening, uh we've got three presentations, and I'm gonna show you some of the new project requirements that were sent to me, and we're gonna make a decision on the remote control functions. We have uh forty minutes.
01:13	Yes.
01:14	Oh, well this is the $ the closing already. So uh - well we start off with the th- the first presentation then.
01:21	Uh I think um in uh - we've to do it in uh in the right order, maybe you'd uh -
01:28	I don't know what the right order is, so.
01:29	(What?)
01:30	Uh.
01:32	Although it won't - doesn't - # maybe we should start with the the technical functions.
01:36	Okay, how can I get this one the whiteboard?
01:36	Yeah.
01:38	Well s- you dumped the file in the uh in the sh- in the project document folder. You've already done that?
01:40	In the project.
01:41	Okay, I've done that.
01:44	(??)
01:44	Yes.
01:48	Well let's close this one, we'll just uh open a new one.
01:50	Open it there.
01:53	Uh well. Yes.
01:58	Oh. (??)
02:02	Oh yeah, uh I have to say something. Uh due to some uh technical problems* I haven't uh digitised the last uh meeting minutes, but I'll uh make sure that it happens next time.
02:12	Mm-hmm.
02:14	Okay.
02:16	$ (About to get -)
02:17	And I'll get this one uh in digital form too.
02:22	'Kay, we're going to um
02:25	uh talk about working design. Um the method of the remote control is uh electrical energy, it activates a chip uh in the remote. It's an electrical circuit
02:39	which compose uh messages in the form of uh uh infrared signals to control the television.
02:49	Mm it's a nowadays very uh known, a known uh uh technology.
02:58	Um the known technology can make the cost very low, uh it's a wild uh a (wide tail) uh of uh remote controls in the world and and the components $ are very uh very cheap. Um
03:16	# Diods, uh bat- batteries and uh uh LED lights, they're needed and they're uh everywhere available uh against a fair price. It's a common uh technology uh (like I told) um. Uh the circuit board, it's the most um important uh
03:35	um part of the remote control. Uh we can use for that uh fibreglass with copper wires, it's - it is uh
03:47	can be made as fast as printing paper, it's uh $ it's all very uh
03:51	Okay.
03:55	yeah, they're making it uh all the time uh
03:59	Okay.
04:00	and it's not uh very specialised uh technology.
04:06	I haven't (come to here), but
04:10	um I've got uh some uh images of uh remote controls. They were not uh very uh trendy or just uh
04:21	just a remote control like everyone knows, so I don't know uh why I should put it here.
04:31	Uh - $
04:32	$ Okay. But it's the technical side of the remote control.
04:36	Yes, but uh I uh haven't made it because uh of the time. But - $
04:39	# Oh.
04:41	Okay. Well, we'll have to skip that part then.
04:44	$ (What?)
04:46	Okay.
04:49	But you don't think it's a problem uh to design uh the technical part of the remote control, it's gonna be easy?
04:54	$ No.
04:56	Yes.
04:56	Okay.
04:57	But nothing restricted for user interface?
05:01	Yeah.
05:01	With technical -
05:01	Um no, it's uh it's just a part of uh a known technology, (yeah).
05:02	I dunno.
05:04	Okay.
05:09	'Kay.
05:09	Remote control is nothing special nowadays.
05:12	Regardless of what type of functions we want to implement, doesn't really matter.
05:12	Okay.
05:17	Um -
05:19	(??)
05:19	I don't think so, because of the - all the televisions uh - there are a few - maybe a couple of televisions with new functions, but is it useful to put 'em on a on a standard uh remote?
05:20	Okay. Yeah, (there), okay.
05:24	Uh -
05:30	Okay.
05:35	Well, we'll see, we'll see later on.
05:38	Well the technical functions, um well I don't know if you got the same uh pictures as I got, but uh I got these two, and I think they're - we have to focus uh on uh the uh one hand the expert viewer or the novice user.
05:45	No.
05:46	No.
05:59	# I think it's it's very much uh depending on the user requirements, I don't s- uh know who's (doing) -
06:05	Well we will (??) from uh user requirements later on. The ones I I've received from the (comments y-) yeah.
06:09	Yeah, but it - I think that's very important to watch what kind of functions there we want to uh put in the remote control.
06:17	Well, we keep this in mind, and then discuss it later on.
06:19	Yeah, well y- we can put functions in it when uh - yeah, when we uh get the user requirements uh and we can update it.
06:26	Mm-hmm.
06:28	Okay, but this really - this uh big d- uh distinction between this type of remote, and we should we should choose one uh - we should not compromise but really choose for expert viewer or novice. Yeah? Well, if that's what you were trying to say.
06:38	Yes, I agree, yeah.
06:42	Well yeah w- if you want try a a a huge market, if you want to reach a huge market uh like elderly people and # - we have to choose for a novice user. But I dunno, it's it's really um depending on how how how far the the the remote controls are already in n- um in use.
06:52	# Okay.
06:53	Okay.
06:56	Yeah, well # some of these - yeah.
07:04	Well some of that will - yeah, but i- but it will be more clear when we come to the uh u- some of the new requirements.
07:10	Yeah, probably, yeah.
07:10	Yes.
07:11	(Chop.)
07:13	Uh well, there are l- at least uh basic functions, uh like just th- the channels one to nine, uh on and off switch (which) must be clear with a red button or something like that. Um (most standard) uh have volume of course and a mute function, and of course next and previous channel, I think that's just basic what we need, and from that on we can (see if) user requirements - what we need more.
07:37	Mm-hmm.
07:44	Uh -
07:48	Yeah, I just um um I thought (Joost) was looking at the trendy, the trends in the markets, and I dunno if there uh are any um - uh if you put more functions, more buttons, maybe it's com- becoming less trendy or something like that.
07:56	Yes.
08:08	You can just # you can k- $ you can keep it in mind, but I dunno, I th- I thought the the - with left buttons you can make a more trendier uh - yeah, more trendier design, I think. I think.
08:09	I haven't really found a conclusion like that.
08:12	Yeah.
08:20	(Design.)
08:24	Sounds interesting.
08:26	Yeah?
08:26	$
08:26	$
08:27	Uh well, that's all I have to say, I think.
08:29	Okay.
08:30	Yeah, that was it.
08:30	# Alright.
08:32	Well then the Marketing expert can tell us something about the current market.
08:33	# Yes.
08:36	(??)
08:36	Yeah. It's alright. Um -
08:47	Alright, I've done some research for functional requiremets. Um - yes.
08:54	The working method um # there were a hundred uh # w- h- one hundred people uh
09:02	how do you say uh # watched using remote controls in the usability lab and they also uh filled out a questionnaire uh with a few questions, uh I've lined them up here, uh asked whether uh common remote control looks good or not, about willingness to spend money on remote control about zapping behaviour, and uh - and stuff like that. I uh I've found some interesting things. We do we do got a market. Um # three out of four people claim # uh to find remote controls ugly, so if we make a trendy design, we sure have seventy fi- seventy five percent of the market which you can reach.
09:48	Um three out of four users uh zaps a lot, as I uh quoted here from the end results. # Zap buttons are used one hundred and sixty eight times per hour, that's quite a lot. Um
10:05	relevant options are of course power buttons, although only used once per hour. Uh channel selection, volume and buttons for text, and the more um, yeah, other functions, like audio settings, video settings, sound settings, are not said to be very important and uh very much used. Furthermore, fifty percent says
10:33	uh they only use ten percent of the buttons on a remote control. That doesn't say we can $ we can leave ninety percent off, but
10:42	it sure um says we shouldn't make it too uh complicated. Fifty percent also claims uh to have lost a remote control very often in the room, and um # an important thing here, the most important customers uh, which is over seventy percent of our market, is in the age range of thirty six to sixty five years old, and uh elderly people, our market, are less interested in uh nice features, but more willingly to spend more money on remote controls.
11:22	So, # what I was thinking - oh, wrong side. We shouldn't implement too much features on uh on our remote control, because elderly people will get lost. Group features for a higher usability, uh what I was claiming in the previous meeting. Um all the settings, about audio settings, video settings and channel settings, which are not very often used,
11:51	we could group them uh on one button
11:55	and make them accessible uh in one menu button or whatever, because they are used very rarely and well, it uh - there are a lot of options there, so we can really make uh - yeah, how do you say,
12:12	we can spare at buttons over there. $ And um if you want to implement V_C_R_ and D_V_D_ options, group them in the button, not too uh -
12:14	Okay.
12:24	# Yeah.
12:26	small buttons, so they won't be very um how do you say -
12:30	(Especially presents.)
12:32	Yes, won't be very present, thank you. And a trendy look, well uh, although uh although seventy percent of the market is uh - consists of elderly people uh who don't really care for trendy looks or whatever, I guess it can do no harm to make it trendy for the other thirty percent.
12:51	That was kind of what I found.
12:53	Okay. Well then we - I'm gonna show you some of the new project requirements and then we're gonna discuss on uh what features we find important. Uh well some of the new requirements # make some of your findings quite uh irrelevant, I think
12:54	Okay.
12:54	# Okay.
13:00	# Yes.
13:13	$
13:16	because um
13:20	uh s- decided to put - they have decided to put two additional requirements forward.
13:25	Uh I see four, that's kinda strange.
13:25	Two? $
13:29	Well, they say tele- teletext becomes outdated since the popularity of the internet. Well, I think that may be so, but well, we can't just leave the teletext button off. It's impossible, I think. So the compromise we could make is just to make one teletext button, you know, like on and off, and don't make a lot of special - put a lot of special features on it to make it transparent or - you know, it's just you want you want to be able to make use of teletext, but not to play with it that much, so we have to think of that. The remote control should only be used for television, otherwise the project becomes more complex, which endagers the time t- t- ma- uh the time to market. So maybe we should leave all D_V_D_ and V_C_R_ related features off completely.
13:34	Well.
13:39	# No uh, I agree, I agree.
13:39	No way.
13:52	Not too much, no.
14:01	Yeah.
14:16	Yeah.
14:18	# Okay.
14:19	I dunno, I think that uh
14:21	that's what they're uh trying to say. Uh our current customers are within the age group of forty plus. New products should reach a new market with customers that are younger than forty, so uh talked about the elderly who were willing to spend more on a remote control and who were interested # well, they're not relevant because we are aiming at a younger -
14:41	I don't really agree actually, to be honest. It's a very small market which we will approach then if we uh want to reach customers younger than forty. It's only like thirty percent of the total market. Mayb- yeah?
14:54	Yeah, but is this - it is a dif- it's a fact that tha- th- th- that bigger marktet you're talking about, we already cover that. Our company already sells remote control to the older people, but we we also want, # you know, a new customer group. That's the one we haven't covered yet, so I think that's
15:12	what the problem is, we haven't got remote control for uh - well I think - yeah.
15:13	Okay.
15:15	Maybe maybe we can compromise a little bit. Not too much then, bu- alright.
15:17	Yeah, I think so, maybe if it's - no no, but I think we have to just keep in mind what a older age group wants, so maybe we can
15:26	make a remote control that's primarily interesting for the younger group, but isn't that bad for an older person either. Uh our corporate image should stay recognisable in our products, our product - corporate colour and slogan must be implemented in the new design. Okay, # something (else). Nice to know.
15:32	Yes.
15:43	But what's our slogan?
15:45	Sorry? Yeah, # you - we have to look that up. $
15:46	The slogan uh -
15:48	$
15:48	# Yeah, I'll have a look.
15:53	We put the fashion in electronics.
15:53	I think it's something about the - oh, okay. I thought - might be to make things better or something, but -
15:53	We put fashion in electronics. $
15:59	$ Sense, simplicity. $
15:59	$ Sense and simplicity. $
16:03	Okay well, # let's go back to the
16:08	the agenda.
16:11	So we've now had to - the three presentations, we know about the new project requirements.
16:15	That means we can uh well d- yeah, discuss on the remote control functions. Well, if I can uh make a start, I think it's becoming more clear what kind of remote control it's gonna be, and I already talked about the uh - maybe you're f- familiar with the rem- remote control that has the the can opener underneath it. I think we're we're looking for some - yeah, we we're looking for a really simple remote control with only basic T_V_ functions. (You know), that -
16:40	Yeah.
16:41	Well, to be honest, if um our uh aim group is uh 'til forty, not older than forty, maybe that's not very uh - yeah, we don't really need to have a simple remote control. I think we can implement more functions then, because um # basically uh the younger people are more able to adapt to new technology and therefore will be a- more -
16:48	Yeah.
16:53	# Yeah.
17:06	Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's why um well a lot of um th- (user) requirements the the account manager sent me, I think they're c- are contradicting each other, because they want a simpler design, and no uh other s- functions than just T_V_, but they s- do aim at a younger - well ma-
17:19	Yes.
17:23	Yeah, but you sai- you said that that a lot of functions aren't used, so why should we put this function in? # I think more I think uh people - younger people are more looking for just a trendy look than uh more functions.
17:24	Yeah.
17:30	# Well, I think -
17:31	%
17:38	But I think uh we can make some discuss- uh distinctions in uh a kind in the, you know, th- th- in functions you've
17:45	well you have different kind of equipment in your room, like a T_ T_V_ and a D_V_D_ player. You can uh, you know uh, you can # make very d- you can put very detailed functions regarding the T_V_ set on your remote control uh with the uh, you know, audio settings and v- uh screen settings. We don't want that, I think that was - that became clear. We don't want, but w- maybe we should put some func- # I know that uh younger people most likely have a D_V_D_ player they want to,
17:48	Yes.
18:15	you know, they want to uh
18:15	Yeah, control.
18:16	Yeah, but uh you said (??) - yeah, but th- the functions are not in the remote control we're making.
18:17	control, remotely.
18:24	No, yeah, th- th- the user requirements of the the the - the new project requirements told us not to - but maybe - yeah. I think we maybe should #
18:24	It's n- #
18:28	Yeah.
18:31	Yeah.
18:34	(??) we should put some functions for other - maybe for other equipment on it, but just the basic functions, maybe like rewind and (wind), or - what d- what do you guys think?
18:41	(??)
18:43	But you can put 'em under the same button.
18:43	Not much more than that.
18:46	Yeah, if - as far as possible.
18:46	Yeah.
18:48	Or we can u- u- we coul put 'em behind the flip-flap or whatever.
18:52	(Sor-)
18:52	But what do you think, d- should we implement features* that uh are functions that - to control other devices? No, you don't think so? Yeah, the new requirements say so.
18:59	No.
19:00	No, new requirements say no.
19:03	So.
19:04	But you can put a play and stop and and rewind.
19:06	Well, maybe it's - maybe there there there is something th- m- most of the time these functions don't support the particular device as well as their their own remote control. You know, a lot of D_V_D_ players have some tricky settings with -
19:06	Yeah.
19:07	Yeah, but -
19:17	Yes, but we -
19:17	Y- yes.
19:18	I- i- if it's too simple uh th- they won't use the remote control, they use their own th- th- # with a lot more functions.
19:21	Yep, exactly.
19:23	That's that's wh-
19:24	But but for for example V_C_R_, that's better example in this case. I think on a remote control for television you don't need to be able to programme uh the V_C_R_ to start recording at three P_M_ or whatever, just play, stop, rewind and # fast forward.
19:35	No no, you don't (??) - no no, you don't (??).
19:40	Okay, but we have to think uh # we have to think D_V_D_ I th- I uh I guess, so uh but uh from my experience it's kinda # a lot of D_V_D_ players, you know, like forwarding, goes differently uh, you can - two speed or eight speed or sixteen speed, it's c- sometimes a bit difficult. Maybe if we just leave the D_V_D_ functionali- m- uh - well I was thinking about putting it in, but concerning the project requirements and what you just said, I think we m- should follow with only T_V_ then.
19:43	Yeah, I know, but - $
20:05	# Yes.
20:05	Yeah, but just #
20:08	keep it simple and look more at -
20:10	And uh and # it's just an uh a complimentary remote and not a universal one. If you want to keep it simple you can make a universal remote. Okay. It's just a s- it should be something that is like a gadget on your coffee table, and it's just for when you you you jump on the couch, you pick up the the nice remote, the simple one, just to put on the television, nothing more.
20:15	No.
20:17	It's only for television, so.
20:18	Yes, but there are there are -
20:26	Yeah.
20:28	Yeah.
20:29	Yeah, nothing more, exactly.
20:31	Okay.
20:32	Alright.
20:33	Um but what televis-
20:34	But how wi- how will you be able to handle the whole market. There are a a dozen of uh - dozens of of remote controls that have -
20:42	Yeah, well we will make this one trendy $ and simple. Well we we will come to that, but ju- first on the on the functions. So we should put uh zap buttons on it um, also numbers, to uh to go to the specific channels.
20:44	$ Yeah. The user interface is easy.
20:44	$
20:54	And the basic - yeah, basic functions, yeah.
20:57	# Yes, definitely, yeah.
20:59	Uh
20:59	It's too much integrated in the oth-
21:00	okay, a t- a teletext button should be there, but just one big teletext button, on and off.
21:03	Yeah.
21:06	(Probably.)
21:06	Yeah, and maybe two or three other options, but not - nothing more than that. I think a stop function is very useful. If you have a uh a page which consists of more pages, and you are not a very quick reader,
21:19	Okay.
21:19	then I think it's very irritating if the next page shows up, but -
21:21	Yeah, but I I think that becomes too difficult, it's not a very common function and people will have to read up on their remote then.
21:25	Well, I use it very regularly, the action. I re- I use it $ quite often.
21:30	Yeah, yeah, but maybe you s- yeah, maybe you do, but I've never heard of it in the first place, and
21:33	(Will we look -)
21:34	$
21:35	$
21:35	$
21:36	We have to - well te- t- yeah, and t- and teletext is becoming outdated, we just want to see what programmes are on and what time it is probably. # Yeah, I dunno, I think that that's ki- getting too complex for our remote. I don't know what you three guys think.
21:37	Look at the market.
21:49	Well.
21:51	Yeah uh uh, it's in the (??) on sunday I always use it for the uh yeah, for the soccer uh
21:58	Yeah, but d- do you like to have such a s- stop button? Or do you think it uh -
22:02	I think it's a kind of uh uh very (rare) and special function.
22:04	Well uh when you uh when you look uh for example um uh a couple of weeks ago I looked at the - for the flights, and there are a lot of flights in one page, so if if -
22:14	Yeah.
22:15	Okay, it goes - yeah, but that's kind of stuff we should do on the internet right now, this w- $ it was s- said in the - in use- in the r- new requirements.
22:19	Yes, but y- you could put
22:20	Yeah, but # -
22:22	on the z- on the zap buttons you can put it to a- to uh access all the same pages, if you have seven pages you can go up and down.
22:27	Well yeah uh, lots of new televisions can store pages, you know, and then you can just skip manually through them using - I think we should just put one teletext button on it, then we meet uh the new requirements,
22:34	True.
22:41	we also meet the other thin- y- you sh- you just re- we have to choose for the the simple design, I guess.
22:46	A simple - yeah.
22:49	Okay. Um (??) what functions do we have to decide on?
22:57	Or do we - uh I dunno if we have t- stif- specifically name all the functions we n- we want.
23:05	We have the zap and th- the volume. Should we do m- make them very big? The the the zap button (??) -
23:10	I think the plus and the minus button should be uh quite present, yeah.
23:10	Yes.
23:11	Th- that's that's that's 'considered to be trendy also.
23:13	But # trendy, yeah. I dunno.
23:15	Or maybe we should place them on a # - in a special way?
23:17	Maybe we can make a kind of a joystick.
23:20	Yeah, something or uh s- someth- special way to to zap throught the - it has to s- it has to be # - yeah, and quick, you have to use it very quickly.
23:27	Original (??).
23:30	Yeah.
23:31	# If you grab the remote, your hands should be on top of the (plus).
23:31	True.
23:35	Yeah, and it - the buttons should make it um possible to to zap through you channels in a rapid - at a rapid pace.
23:44	Yes.
23:45	Oh, what should we decide on then?
23:50	I think in a in a case of this simple remote control the technical aspect which uh weren't worked out already, but it w- shouldn't be a problem then.
23:58	No, it's o- just signals uh - and the television doe- does the rest.
24:01	Yeah.
24:01	Maybe uh
24:04	Yeah okay, but we don't have to - uh well we don't want to uh control other devices, I think it makes it even more simple.
24:10	No.
24:11	Uh maybe w- uh uh the batteries maybe. If you use large batteries or small batter- batteries.
24:17	The most standard batteries.
24:17	I think
24:19	I think that we should use uh - yeah, not not uh the b- the watch kinda - the most uh - what has to be simple, and I w-
24:19	I think double A_.
24:19	Yeah? $
24:22	Yeah.
24:27	Yeah.
24:27	The most ordinary uh batteries.
24:28	Which are most likely to be found somewhere in the house, you know.
24:32	Yeah.
24:34	Well uh, how much time do we ha- we have left uh? M- m- m- more than (twenty) minutes? Uh ten twenty minutes. (??)
24:36	# I think about twenty minutes.
24:40	But i- # in a way we have to be uh uh special.
24:41	Early break.
24:45	Yeah, yeah, okay, but that's that's -
24:48	Do you uh have you have you think about tha- thought about that? How we can - what the extra touch can be. They suggested design or the shape or some gadget f- f- kind of feature* or - uh it was something about how we lose them. Maybe it should be uh a remote control when you uh y- clap you hands $ it makes some noise or some gadged kind of thing.
24:53	Maybe th- mm.
25:06	$ I think that's n- that's more for a for an age range or uh $ ten to twelve or whatever. $
25:08	(To fight him?) That's maybe - yeah.
25:09	Yeah.
25:12	$ I dunno. I dunno, now um a lot of people like to have such kind kind of kind of ga- kind of things. It w- it w- should be like a birthday present or something that you give somebody (??) it has something nice. Or maybe it w- should have a big uh light that can flash or something on it or maybe it should # - or an - or the like the the can opener, maybe it contains some feature* that you don't normally link to a remote control. I think it's very impor- because we're gonna make such a basic remote control, we have to do something to make it special. It's gonna cost twenty five Euros.
25:13	$
25:23	Yeah, yeah, that's good one, yeah.
25:26	Yeah.
25:43	Yeah.
25:48	# I- I think the can opener is a brilliant idea actually, because television and beer is not a rare combination. $
25:51	Yeah, but the w- it's already been done.
25:52	Yeah, but it's - yeah.
25:55	$ Yeah, it is true. But - and I think it's gonna be # very uh - it has to be sturdy or something, so maybe with with bouncing pads so that you can just throw it on the floor or something. Well it has to be something special, and you really - # it has to, you know y- not s- people, when they buy it, they have to think, well it is one less for a long time, we're really gonna use them, not some thing you you throw away next week, you know.
26:02	Yes.
26:20	No, that's true.
26:22	So maybe us that's s- I think that's # when uh when we decide on these type of functions, you know, basic functions, or - it's very important to find something like this, so it's a very important task for you. And maybe uh we can all think about it. Uh also for you maybe, won't you - it's very nice when you can be entra- when you can be trendy and and uh and al- as in a frien- user-friendly as well, you know. So big buttons, flashy design, and maybe some kind of gadget kind of thing.
26:34	Be original, yeah.
26:40	Mm-hmm. And user-friendly, yeah.
26:43	Yeah.
26:47	Yeah.
26:48	#
26:51	Must brainstorm.
26:51	Uh-huh.
26:51	Yeah, a swapable front or whatever.
26:53	Yeah, or just different colours would be uh - I don't know if people also wanna spend more money or funds for their uh remote control, it could be b- yeah, you never know, but -
27:00	# Well.
27:00	For the remote control. $
27:01	$ Why not?
27:03	Yeah.
27:04	More money for us.
27:06	$
27:07	But i- and I think we have to make it quite big.
27:07	Yeah.
27:10	Quite big, yeah, you think?
27:10	Yes, definitely, definitely.
27:11	Yeah # uh y- people -
27:12	That's to be uh a (formed) for your hand.
27:14	So uh also because uh it is expensive (it wanted) to be something, you know, it's ha- doesn't have much functions (??) want to be - you don't want to get it l- make it -
27:20	Yes, i- # it it should be f- be visible nearly anywhere in the room, as I uh as I said during my presentation, fifty percent uh o-
27:26	Mm-hmm.
27:28	And shou- and should ni- look nice when you put it on the table. # I think you m- might wanna put it uh # - yeah, that it it it it stands up. Yeah, you have to put it on its - so it's like a vase or uh something you put on a table. (??) inside it, but but it's like like a statue or something (??) -
27:33	A standard or something.
27:35	Yeah.
27:39	A (face), o- uh yeah, yeah.
27:41	More like joystick then.
27:41	$
27:44	Yeah, yeah, I see what you mean, yeah.
27:46	It's like you have uh four phones.
27:47	Yeah yeah, but but you you also can put it somewhere (??).
27:49	If you do that, but I don't know if that's possible within the prodution cost of twelve and a half Euros. $ I- in in the base we could like make # a button, and if you push it, the remote control itself s- makes noise. That's probably stupid, but uh as I found here uh, fifty percent, was it fifty? Uh fifty percent
27:52	That it's it's fashionable.
27:55	Yeah, I s- I d-
28:04	Yeah.
28:11	But that's that's fun for the first time, and then the second -
28:14	fifty percent often loses remote control.
28:16	Yeah, but but when you $ - when it gets lost, how can you press the button to make -
28:21	No uh, of the base the the the the the the thing you put it in.
28:23	Oh, okay.
28:23	On the television.
28:26	Oh, like this.
28:26	Yeah, that's kind of nice.
28:27	If an - a button in in that -
28:27	$
28:29	Or you can -
28:29	And then also you don't even need batteries, because you can make it rechargeable. $
28:33	$ A cha- a chargeable, yeah.
28:33	# Yeah, you can ma- make rechargeable* one, yeah. Why not.
28:33	Yeah. $
28:36	Although - yeah, but - yeah, the pro- no, well I think it did - might be (??) but we don't # yeah. Maybe you, $ but we don't know much about production cost, but when you - you can imagine it when you spend twenty five Euros on remote control and it's a basic remote control, then the then the money - there must be money to spend on that kind of st- # you know, that rechargeable unit.
28:39	Why not?
28:50	With recharger.
28:51	($)
28:56	It should only cost twelve and a half Euros of course.
28:59	Yeah, but we d- we ma- we do it in Taiwan and so it's not gonna be that expen-
29:00	Production.
29:02	$
29:03	$ Yeah, okay. $
29:06	It should be possible. I think it's a good idea.
29:06	Uh I I think it's a great idea.
29:09	Yeah.
29:09	S- some kind of be- I've never seen that before, and you make it um be- uh you see it with uh the mo- the mouses* nowadays.
29:10	To make a base or something?
29:16	Yes. Yes, definitely. Yeah.
29:18	Yes, but is that handy?
29:20	Well that - well it's rech- you can recharge it, so you ha- never have the battery problem, that's one tha- thing, and uh you can always find your remote control (??)
29:24	It's it's it's it's
29:26	But but remote controls remote controls nowadays can can last uh two years, three years, with with t- two batteries.
29:26	it's not the purpose to be handy, it's
29:34	Yeah, okay. Or maybe yeah, you could - when that's when it's too costly, you could probably skip the recharger, but you will - you do need uh also an # also you would need a battery in the the base unit as well, you know. Does - makes it kinda -
29:36	And then you -
29:47	Yes. Or -
29:47	Well y- you you could connect that to to (hundred and twenty folds) of course.
29:50	Mm. Yeah, but that's not - it's ugly, I think.
29:51	Yeah yeah, okay, yeah.
29:54	Yeah, but then it's very easy to make th- also rechargeab- I don't think that is gonna cost much to make it also recharge functions in it.
30:00	No.
30:02	On the other hand, if you don't do it, we can also make a nice (bay), I mean it looks trendy and still $ still put a bleep function in it but um I think the (bay) is definitely uh -
30:09	$ Yeah.
30:14	I think it's a good idea, and make it, you know, we we um
30:18	well we - it's - it isn't a most costly uh remote control, we can save on on the functions, we just # put some simple buttons in, make it big and sturdy, nothing more, and just make s- sure there's some noise that it can make or probably some kind of cheap light thing around it or that it that it lights up, it's also nice. And if you put it away, I think it's uh w- we have to - we did so- it's not an easy market, we have to something special. And for twenty five Euros people want remote - special from (your) remote control*, and we can't deliver that in r- with uh regards to the functions, because we aren't gonna
30:36	Sure, why not. Yeah.
30:41	Yeah.
30:43	Yeah.
30:45	Yeah.
30:46	True.
30:50	Yeah.
30:54	With eye candy, ear candy, whatever.
30:57	Yeah. And then then we make it, you know, nice looking shape and (this way) - and then you also you got the standup thing.
31:04	Yeah. I think I think it's a good idea.
31:05	Yeah.
31:06	Yeah, it must be must be a gadget to have.
31:08	Yeah. Or if it - let - well, we will see what's possible concerning the the costs, and if it's possible we'll do that. And we even try to save up on other stuff to make sure we can do such a thing in - the first thing we - the most likeable thing to to n- to skip is then probably the recharge function or something. If that's too expensive we won't do that. But it would be nice.
31:09	Definitely, yeah.
31:16	Yeah.
31:29	Yeah, we c-
31:31	# It would be nice, yes.
31:32	It's the idea, I know that batteries last longer nowadays and and when people just think about, oh, I never have to buy any r- batteries again, so y- because it's very annoying when your battery is empty, you know, when you haven't batteries around, and probably for two weeks a rem- # I have experienced that that -
31:46	Most televisions break down before the battery pack is empty, so $ yes.
31:49	Yeah, okay.
31:52	So, easy functions, while we'll we will I think work that out, zapping, numbers on it, bi-
31:58	Or just give a beep when the battery's all - uh down.
32:02	Yeah, why not.
32:02	# Yeah. But it's also annoying. (??) 'cause as long as it stays - as it ke- keeps working, you're not very motivated to do something about it, then (abuse) all the time and (??). You don't want to have - ever have those problems, and you won't have if if you have the rechargeable (thing). And you don't have to use the unit, you can also put it on the side if people don't like it. # (??) Yeah, but I mean if if they pay for it because they think, oh, that's a great idea, I'm gonna use it, and when, yeah, when time goes by, and you think, well, I never put 'em in the recharger, (that thing) last long enough, then you put it on the side and you can use it now and them. (??) # I I know for sure that everybody who buys this remote control, within a couple of months they will be in a situation that they they're seeking for their remote control, they wanna see something quick and uh just push the button and uh # I think it's brilliant. Yeah, I've never - it's so simple, but I've never seen it.
32:04	$
32:07	Mm.
32:09	Yeah.
32:11	Mm, true.
32:12	No, that's true.
32:24	Why not.
32:24	# But you pay for it.
32:51	Bleep bleep bleep, oh there it is, yeah. Yeah.
32:53	Yeah.
32:56	No. Nearly.
32:56	And you can leave it just there.
32:58	Maybe we should really $ do this. $ Okay now, well, how much time have we got left? These clocks aren't uh synched. Well, I've put (??). Okay, so we have ten minutes or something?
32:59	$ Yeah.
33:00	$ Yeah.
33:07	$ Yes.
33:10	Yeah, (I'll -)
33:12	Something like that, yeah.
33:14	Yeah, but we're uh we're done. I think.
33:16	Uh fifty minutes.
33:19	We've decided on the functions. Well, there is some - oh.
33:25	There is a closing sheet.
33:28	We have luch break, and then we have thirty minutes of individual work.
33:31	Oh.
33:33	Oh # okay, I'll make sure I - I had some problems with uh the digitising the the first minutes, the the s- the next minutes won't be a problem, but I'll try to make sure the first one will be in the folder too, but maybe it won't work, but you'll see. I think these are more important than the first ones, so.
33:46	# We'll see.
33:49	Can you make an uh uh
33:52	a part of f- folder for the minutes maybe? That no- not everything in one one uh folder.
33:55	Oh yes, okay.
33:56	(Maarten), five minutes.
33:58	Oh, five minutes. Yeah, because I I I I did a - the first minutes I did were were were a bit scratchy, you know. Then I did a s- second one with a nice layout which I could uh (you know) use for the other ones as well, but I think I forgot to do - put (down) under the first one, and when you go write a second uh it's get - $ it's not working when you try to write a second uh paper or something. (??) you had to overwrite it or someth- I dunno. Becau- I d- uh it was not my uh pen.
34:15	Yeah.
34:19	Maybe.
34:20	No, that's true uh, yeah.
34:27	Should we by the way draw um
34:30	(This kind of looks you like.)
34:31	on our nice whiteboard? Um a little uh idea of - yeah.
34:35	Of the shape.
34:37	(Or the sh-)
34:37	Yeah, probably, it would be nice.
34:37	I dunno. Has anyone got um # a little bit detailed ideas about the shape? I don't, for one.
34:39	#
34:41	Do you get an idea of the shape?
34:45	Maybe like this pen.
34:47	A bit bigger I guess, but - $
34:48	Yeah, bigger.
34:50	A little bit bigger, yeah but -
34:52	The shape is nice, it's um
34:54	something different, and we want we want that. Yeah.
34:56	Does (that) feel nice in your hand?
34:57	Well, I I # I have to say, I have this uh can opening remote control in my head most of (all), or I think some - maybe we should - no, that will be too costly. We shou- we could also, that was a - would also be an idea, but I don't think it - I don't know if it exists already, you should like make Alessi or something design it.
35:06	Oh uh lek- uh look at the pictures.
35:15	# Okay, yeah.
35:17	That would also be nice.
35:19	But that's gonna - then you c- then you don't
35:19	Yeah, but # twelve and a half Euros? $
35:21	Yeah, but then you don't - yeah it - that's not something i- that's in the production cost, so one so one time, you know, (??) it's a single cost. Yeah, (but then) but then you can - nah, I don't think - I think that it would be more expensive, because I've bought the Alessi stuff more often and even small pencil holders or something are more expensive.
35:30	Yeah.
35:42	Yeah, that's true.
35:44	Would be a nice idea though.
35:47	I dunno, I think it uh has to be r- r- it has to have round forms or something
35:53	like something like that or so- uh so-
35:55	Something like that is very ergonomic.
35:57	And on th- and then uh s- a base unit underneath it. It's also round.
35:59	So.
36:04	Put it in the (??) on it.
36:07	Maybe uh, I don't know, some some lights, a big bu- well.
36:08	Yeah.
36:13	Yeah, flash lights at at the side, at the side or something like that.
36:13	#
36:15	Volume and programme, yeah.
36:16	Yes, volume and programme should be there I guess, because you hands wi- y- your hands will be in the smaller part.
36:20	And in some of the extra functi-
36:22	Some of the extra functions over here. Numbers.
36:23	Yeah.
36:24	Yeah, and the numbers on top, I guess.
36:26	Yeah.
36:26	And and lights? How we're g- maybe uh s- a ring of - no no uh, you have to f- (??). Maybe on the side of it?
36:32	Maybe ro- roun- rounds uh uh uh - sorry.
36:34	Yeah, side of it, just two LEDs or something on the side, yeah.
36:35	Along the side of the strip of - yeah.
36:37	Maybe lights also around the volume and the p- the plus minus programme buttons (??).
36:43	Yeah, but I also meant the the blinking li- uh you know, the ones that also blink when you try to uh uh locate your remote.
36:51	Okay.
36:52	Yeah.
36:53	Yeah.
36:54	Huh, (it's) have to be -
36:54	Well, probably at the side.
36:58	You know look at the front, but -
36:58	Yeah. Yeah, yeah, exactly, when you you see it from the side, then it would look just # like that.
37:05	Yeah, exactly, and then there is - yeah.
37:05	And then you have
37:07	a strip of the lights or something.
37:08	Yeah, something like that, yeah.
37:08	Okay, yeah.
37:12	Well, I think it's nice, for one thing. Then maybe put something on top of it $ or, you know, like that's - looks funny. I dunno.
37:17	$ No. No.
37:17	$
37:21	Or some bump, maybe some - yeah.
37:21	I think I think that'll be too big tha- too big then.
37:25	Bumper or something.
37:26	We have to think about it. I think we're we're done.
37:28	Yeah.
37:28	Yeah.
37:29	# Yes, we are.
37:31	We can save this one.
37:31	# Alright. Yes, I guess it's lunch time.
37:31	Lunch break?
37:33	Okay then.
37:37	Mm mm. [Dutch]
37:41	# I dunno.
37:41	[Dutch]
37:42	[Dutch]
37:43	Half and hour? I thought our next uh next individual round was half an hour.
37:45	Okay, five (??).
37:48	Yeah, that was what uh
37:49	I dunno about the lunch break.
37:51	(mm what I hear about it.)
37:54	(# Well.)
38:01	Oh (??).
38:05	(??)
38:20	[whistling]

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