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World At One 2017-09-29:12:45.00
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  • Thank you for downloading this podcast of the world at one from B.B.C. radio four, this is the world at one with mark mardell a letter from conservative M.P.s urged the government to hit the pause button on their big change to the welfare system, a former top civil servant, thinks they're right.

  • You look at something like the implementation of universal credit, and it makes my hair stand on end.

  • And one conservative M.P. says there's an even bigger problem for every pound these people and extract the government's taken sixty three pence back off them.

  • And to me, that there is an effective tax rate of sixty three per cent, which is just ridiculous.

  • We'll hear a defence of the scheme, the new UKIP leader will be announced today.

  • Could this be the party's next pitch, a threat of Islam difficult discussions art, science, we owe it to the British people to show some courage.

  • Time is running out for Ryanair who only have a few hours left to explain how they will compensate the passengers whose flights have been cancelled.

  • We talk to the aviation Minister and the head of m.i.six would rather give a job to George smile, even James bond we hear the case for double, Oh, seven b. b. c. news is read by Caroline Nichols, the President of the European Commission has warned that miracles are needed to allow Brecht's negotiations to move On to discussion about a future trade deal between the U.K. and E.U., by the end of next month, chocolate, made the remark ahead of a summit of European leaders in the stonier, which is being attended by Theresa may speaking as she arrived, the Prime Minister insisted that very good progress had been made in the first phase of talks from the summit in Tallinn.

  • Here's a Europe correspondent Kevin Connelly Jean Claude Yonkers downbeat assessment at the prospect of a breakthrough in the breaks it talks echoed in slightly more colourful terms, the verdict delivered yesterday by the E.U..

  • Chief negotiator, Michel Barney, eh.

  • That verdict, there has been progress, but not enough to persuade the E.U. to move on from talking about separation issues like money and start discussing your future trade partnership my younger said he thought they wouldn't be sufficient progress between now and next month's summit unless miracles happen.

  • For her part, Theresa may, who's been stressing the U.K.'s commitment to European defence after breaks it here in Tallinn said she was pleased that there had been movement as part of the U.K.'s attempt to broaden the brakes, it conversation missus Meyer's also held one to one talks with the German Chancellor angle or Merkel to press the British case, a former senior civil servant, has urged the government to pause the rollout of its universal credit scheme, which merges six benefits into one Dame Louise Casey, who was honoured for her work In government, helping families and vulnerable people have said that the time it takes to deliver the payments could push claimants into the most dire circumstances, the country has seen in years, the Governor of the Bank of England.

  • Mark Carney, has given his strongest hint yet that interest rates will rise.

  • This autumn, for the first time in a decade, the base rate was cut to the current record low of a quarter of one percent after the E.U. referendum.

  • However, the bankers, come under pressure to act, because inflation is increasing our business correspondent Jonty bloom reports.

  • Ever since the credit crunch.

  • Ten years ago, the U.K. has become accustomed to ultra low interest rates, but that era, may be about to end my Kearney is now warning that interest rates may have to increase in the relatively near term, but he also said that when rates to rise will go up in a limited and gradual manner, the Bank of England is considering increasing the cost of borrowing because inflation is higher than it likes and because after Brecht's, it is as low it, it's assumptions about how quickly the economy can grow without forcing up prices.

  • There are also concerns about with her banks are lending too much, especially in the form of personal loans and credit cards.

  • Three former executives at Tesco have gone on trial charged with false accounting that resulted in the supermarket inflating its profits by two hundred fifty million Pounds its Former managing Director financed cheese and commercial Director for food are accused of concealing the firm's true financial position or dinner Campbell reports from Southwark Crown Court prosecutors say the three former executives were not the foot soldiers in the scandal, but the generals who were responsible for grossly inflating Tesco's profits in the lead up to the company admitting its figures were wrong in two thousand fourteen the jury was told the men encouraged dishonest manipulation to meet profit targets and keep their jobs at a difficult time for Tesco, the Court heard, they did this by allegedly cooking, the books and massaging figures Karl Rog Burgh Chris Bush and John Scala or charged with fraud and false accounting they deny any wrongdoing.

  • The trials expected to last for three, the aviation Minister Lord cannon has accused Ryanair of behaving disgracefully towards its passengers for its handling of the cancellation of thousands of flights, the civil aviation authority has given the airline until five P.M. to inform customers of their rights to be re routed by another carrier, and to set out how will compensate h. s.

  • England has changed its mind about funding a life changing drug for a seven year old boy who has a rare genetic condition, which means he can't meta metabolise protein is also severely autistic health service had previously refused to pay for the treatment, arguing that its clinical effectiveness, had not been proven a judge ruled last month that it must reconsider Its decision former I.R.A. members could, for the first time face criminal charges for their alleged role in the events of bloody Sunday in nineteen seventy two thirteen people were shot dead when soldiers opened fire on civil rights demonstrators in Londonderry another died of his injuries for months later, our Ireland correspondent Chris page reports, the police began an investigation into bloody Sunday after a public inquiry.

  • Find the killings were unjustified during the inquiry official I.R.A. members said, the organisation had shot at soldiers in retaliation for the shooting of two demonstrators, but they denied firing the first shots.

  • The b. b. c. has nicely letter from the public prosecution service to relatives of the bloody Sunday victims, it says detectives, have submitted a new file about a Republican, and it's understood police are preparing a document on a second I.R.A. suspect the official I.R.A., which came out of a split in the Republican movement declared a ceasefire in the early nineteen seventies, while the provisional I.R.A. continued a violent campaign prosecutors are already considering whether to charge.

  • Some former soldiers, but that decision would come for at least another six months, at least twenty two people have been killed and more than thirty injured in a Stampede at a railway station in the Indian city of Mumbai, there was a sudden downpour during the morning rush hour witnesses say this caused crowds on a narrow pedestrian bridge to try to run for cover the culture Secretary Karen Bradley has announced that Birmingham, is to be the U.K.'s official candidate city for the twenty twenty two Commonwealth games, no other cities are expected to bid for the event ahead of tomorrow's deadline, meaning the games are almost certain to be held in Birmingham, thanks Caroline the government's much troubles long planned change the welfare system has run into more problems at the worst possible time, just before their party conference, just after the Prime Minister admitted that the sacrifices working people have made since the financial crisis have seen some lose face in free market capitalism universal credit bundles together six welfare payments into one, but they've been huge practical problems.

  • Now, there are reports that a group of conservative M.P.s have written to their work and pensions Secretary demanding appals and its implementation.

  • We've been told by a senior conservative that such a letter has been sent, a former top civil servant is also now calling calling for a temporary halt Dame Louisa Casey has been in government for eighteen years, and was the Director general of the government's troubled families programme.

  • In an exclusive interview for the P.M. programme.

  • She said that some people end up more direct your dire circumstances that have been seen for years, unless there is a pool.

  • You look at something like the implementation of universal credit, and it makes my hair stand on end.

  • And yet, the government is wedded to this scheme.

  • They've invested an awful lot of money And time and effort, and they believe that it's the way forward.

  • It's due to be rolled out nationally.

  • This autumn.

  • What do you think should happen, I think they should pause on it.

  • No, I don't say that lightly.

  • I completely agree that they should be, we all should be wedded to the principal, and therefore the overall policy.

  • The work should pay, where they're ending up is the benefits will punish, and I don't think that's the intention of anybody here, but it's about delivery, so the the overall strategy might be right, the overall intention might be right, but the fact of the matter is the actual delivery of, it means that some people, because of the waiting time before benefit kits in will end up in dire circumstances more dire than I think we've seen in this country.

  • For years, and that we have to stop, and I think it's O.K., occasionally to say, we didn't get the implementation completely right, let's pause and see what we can do at the moment.

  • Everybody's holding out with were pressing on were pressing on were pressing on, it's like jumping over a cliff.

  • Once you've jumped people end up at the bottom, and we don't want that to happen.

  • What is the point, no of pausing just for a few months away.

  • What can you change in a matter of months that hasn't been worked on, what do you know these years about lambing and an expense, because It's one of those policies that potentially seems right on the outside, but on the delivery of it, you realise that, actually, there will be some families.

  • Right now, who was so close to the edge that he or she may just now, not to be able to get that cleaning job on top of the job, they're already doing, and two weeks from now, they're going to need benefit, and we're going to make those people wait a month and a week without any safety, all I'm suggesting is in other benefit system, in other eras.

  • We've had safety nets, we might need to safety, then Louise Casey talking to Caroline Quinn, and you can hear the whole of that interview on P.M. at five o'clock universal credit has been in the pipeline for seven years, and it should have been fully and fermented this year, the flagship welfare reform of the Cameron government, the brainchild of Iain Duncan Smith, it's been dogged by problems in two thousand twelve report said that the I.T. system wouldn't be ready in time.

  • In April, two thousand thirteen the roll out was scaled down and delayed in September of that year, a national audit Office report said universal credit was beset by weak management in effective control and poor governance.

  • In June, two thousand fifty in a government report found it was three billion Pounds over budget in two thousand sixteen Iain Duncan Smith, resigned after rails with Chancellor George Osborne, the System was made more generous before trial started last year, but the completion date has been pushed back until two thousand twenty two, and they're a continual reports of huge delays, really, he'd known as head of policy research at the citizens advice Bureau can join me now.

  • Good afternoon, good afternoon what problems you hearing about every day across the country, people are coming to citizens' advice with problems with universal credit.

  • In actual fact, we've helped people with over one hundred thousand issues.

  • Now, since this benefit was introduced and the Brat problems do vary their pretty practical things actually like being able to get onto a computer to make a claim.

  • Having the right evidence required to make it, but the big issue that people come to us about his are waiting for their first payment.

  • Now we're talking about people waiting six weeks or more, our data.

  • Other people other organisations data, and even the government's own data shows that people.

  • A lot of people have Ting to wait more than six weeks for their full payment, if you've not got no savings.

  • If you've got no income.

  • If you're looking at something like a week's wages to survive.

  • And that's a huge amount of time for people to wait for what are they supposed to do with their bills.

  • During that time, how do they make sure they don't get into arrears, it's a real tricky problem for people, I'll go back to that Problem, but it was interesting that you mentioned, people, not being able to get access to computers, cos, this is all about an I.T. system, isn't it.

  • The people have to have access to I.T., yeah, universal credit has quite a lot of big changes in it.

  • Digital I'm going online is one of them.

  • And the way people budget and the changes in payment schedules or another.

  • It is very hard to make that change, particularly on digital if you've not used a computer, if you've got to go to a local library or an alternative setting to get onto the computer is a big issue for people, and especially if you're in a rural area or somewhere that's further away from it, we have to remember that not everybody has a computer in their home.

  • Not everybody has access to the Internet is something that we see frequently at citizens advice, and we need to build a system that allows for that to be the case, and a provides people with adequate support in that situation.

  • What about the delays in payment.

  • Why is that.

  • It's important to remember that universal credit is designed in a way that builds in a six week way, it's fundamental to the design of that benefit now worryingly, even D.W. peas own data shows that one in four people are waiting longer than that.

  • Six weeks.

  • That's a huge amount of time for people to go without any money, it's not like Your bill.

  • Stop it.

  • It's not like your landlord's going to go.

  • Hey, it's fine.

  • Don't pay the rent this month, people are really forced into a hard place in their situation.

  • So what should happen, we are calling for a paws of the roll out so that d.w.p. can put its resources into fixing these problems, rather than speeding up the roll out and affecting thousands, tens of thousands more people each.

  • We want them to make sure that everybody gets a payment, at least within that six weeks, and to ensure that those who need it can get a payment at two weeks, and we really need that support package to be consistent across the country, so that those who need help. can get it from the citizens advice Bureau.

  • Thanks very much.

  • Debbie Abrahams is the shadow Secretary of state for work and pensions.

  • She supports her paws in the roll out of universal credit or you see is, it's known to his friends and enemies.

  • We could Court is that you could, in principle, any pads, particularly around the simplification of the social security system.

  • I don't look her in the principle that we need to ensure that work always pays, unfortunately, tend to both the deliberate, but also in terms of the policy, it fell, the cut, but the Tories have made to work allowances Lizard, this is the case now.

  • So, what are your worries about it in practical terms.

  • What impractical.

  • And we Know that it is causing increasing debt for entry and even homelessness.

  • I had a nurse in one of my surgery.

  • A few weeks ago, she's a single mum and she had transferred from tax credit to universal credit, she had to wait, I think we can one in four people have to wait a little belief to the pigs, we for their first payment, you quid rent arrears, and she just prepped in the big snakes is finished, me, they are the real problem that people are facing, we only have six hundred thousand only only six hundred moment is meant to be seven million by twenty twenty, we really need to take Goodwood appals do.

  • I mean, can you six whatever's wrong.

  • Whatever you say is wrong simply by pausing for a few months, we can cook that we can some of the fundamental if you go round the concrete delay.

  • Why do we have.

  • We need to make sure that the advance payments not alone are made available to people, particularly and needed.

  • We know that from there you go bleep, you go into figures that are applying for you see Leighton and barn Sloan, but Laila will drive them into that we need to make sure that this is an upfront payment, not a land, and I, the personal could cause, we know, for example, that the the phone line.

  • That's going to be there to provide that for Court is costing fifty pence a minute, I had befriended beatings that I went in my recent conference um d'You think they waited on the phone, and a ten pound somebody, I'm going to help.

  • I'm not ten Pounds on phone call that meant great would be providing support the government of this with a statement saying, the vast majority of claimants are paid in full and on time, their latest research shows that around eighty percent of all new claims are paid fully and on time.

  • O.K., it's the one in four.

  • One in pen awaiting waiting over ten weeks, you've got a real, significant excuse an undertaker's mounting evidence now of the harm.

  • And that's it.

  • He's causing her, we need to really rethink, and I think the the Tory M.P., you could have written this letter actually David Cork are absolutely right, and I can mend them, and I hope that he is listening, you know, we we, O.K.. boys sentiments about attacking burning injustices and making sure that people God, I'll barely struggling.

  • Can I get that support, and they're not getting labour's Debbie Abrahams, a former cabinet Minister told us, he understood their concerns, the system was very frustrating, there were real problems paying directly to vulnerable claimants, which would lead to people being behind on their rent Stephen mcparland as the conservative, M.P. for Stevenage, he says, he's concerned about universal credits tapir rate, the amount, the people will have to pay back my real concern about universal credit is not So much causing this roll out, it's about the actual tape who raced the amount people having to pay back.

  • So, what are they saying in your postbag about that.

  • How does it actually impact people.

  • I mean, you two things.

  • Yet, some people who are concerned that our cause.

  • In my area.

  • We haven't got lots of full, though you, so you get some people who are concerned that, you know, they may have to wait in the weeks before they're going to get benefit.

  • Do I understand from what I've seen, there are measures in place where they can have, I think, up to half the money paid, and in a finance, I'm if they're having problems, they could be paid Ricky and winning the paper on animals.

  • So I think, as long as they communicate, there's ways round, but I think what my real concern is for every pound these people, extract the government's taken since sixty three pence back off them ants in me tartan is an effective tax rate of sixty three per cent, which is just ridiculous.

  • So, you know, the lowest paid to attack me having to pay some of the highest taxus, when you look at universal credit in, that's the campaign that I'm interested in how we actually get that sixty three pence there paint back in a few Pearl back that I would presumably discourage people from taking a job well it discourages people from taking extra hours.

  • Did I Were original idea behind universal benefits universal credit would be that rate would be much lower.

  • If you think that the higher rate taxpayers are currently paying forty five p. in the pound.

  • Why are these pains sixty three p. in the pound.

  • So my view is, we've got to reduce that down, that's where the real power on this, for me, no causing this rolled out.

  • I think that's something that's going on at the moment.

  • I know affects certain people, but the real battle is going to be, once it's gone.

  • Alpha everybody, millions of people are going to be affected by pain is punitive rate, and that's why I want to stop.

  • Are you allowed known campaigner on this, I think I found on tax credits.

  • When I was doing some of the Nash in straw and stuff, you often start out alone.

  • And then, once people understand the issue, and they all come flooding into support you, because I think we've got to get out there and educates and explain and what would it mean for the government to change that's presumably cost an awful lot of money, it would cost huge amounts of money, and you know why I'd be delighted won't be cos I'll be asking the question on the neck of October in Parliament about this to the Secretary of state, and I think one of the things that'll be interesting, as when they quote numbers back at me cos if they say, Well, you know, every penny a cost a billion want to me, that's a billion pound, they're taken out of the pockets of the people on the lowest incomes are trying to get themselves off benefits.

  • And if they don't listen, they don't change.

  • Well, I think we've been quite successful.

  • So far, we have to change their mind on tax credits and got them to change their mind when employers' national insurance self employed national insurance.

  • I'm a natural optimist conservative M.P. Stephen mcparland we asked of to speak to the Minister, from the Department for works and pensions.

  • None was available, but they did suggest we speak to the conservative, M.P. for Brent wood and oonga Alex Burckhardt, who's on the work and pensions.

  • Select Committee, and we're delighted to do so.

  • Good afternoon, I'm mark, lots of lots of calls, therefore, eh pools should there be a pools.

  • I understand why people, some of the delays that they'd seen up to this point.

  • That's why I've been reassured to hear the steps, the government have taken to make sure, firstly, that purity of people are going to be waiting long and six weeks had been streamlining streamlining the system.

  • You've got to understand that this is, we have not gone.

  • It's not gone for a big introduction of this new well her system, we have been introducing it very gradually region by region, it area by area.

  • At the moment, only eight percent, the country is On universal credit and over the next few months.

  • Goodbye.

  • January, we will only be on ten percent.

  • So the idea that there is going to be this sort of sudden massive cliff edge, I think it is just wrong, which the tides are very much the, actually, the way in which the government is doing is extremely sensible by going by doing Harry by area, what you've actually got it's a test and learn it, it means if you can prove the system of the cocoa, and that's what's been so we we already here, so the the longer delays being reduced already thing, many more people being paid on time, so we're now without stage where eighty percent of people are been twenty per cent on T'door, yeah.

  • And if you look at why that's happening.

  • Actually, I can't stand it about a third of those people being paid on time, because they haven't submitted the right intonation.

  • They haven't filled out the forms correctly.

  • I think that they need more help to do that, and I would like to see that that been put in place in job centres, but there's a degree of user error, and you've got about another third of people you haven't agreed signed the claim, except that which is thank your part.

  • But if it's ripped, but it's a user error leads to the nurse being evicted, sorry, sorry.

  • It's wrong to Cartwright, I simply bring the cake.

  • Don't simply bearing down, She insists, but if that leads to a nurse being evicted.

  • Surely you've got a thing to be done about that sort of situation.

  • I don't know, I completely.

  • That's why Princess Margaret plants, but the government is putting in place is that's you right now, no parents have always been available, it's by understanding, but they haven't always been been advertised and I are very much greater hostel, he'll be fine about this last month, it's very important that everyone is aware that there are parts of God's treatments available, and that for everyone.

  • Advanced paints suitable they get them and out that meat, you come on, let's make some progress on this, I think, half of people insisting, you're now getting advance payment.

  • That's gone up rapidly in the past couple of months, and I think that hasn't been taken into a cowboy sums just had been on your programme.

  • So far, but obviously, there's still a way to go, or not, why don't me and comics are basically, we'd like to see that.

  • What about the separate the very important point made by Stephen mcparland, so he was saying, the the the tapir amounts to a sixty three percent tax rate a punitive rate for the poorest people in society.

  • Look, I have to take a great, it's a really important part if universal credit.

  • Now the bespoke or you go on to what it should be in the future.

  • Let's remember that under the old system Under catch credits under this horrible, you'll benefit that we've been stuck with for the past thirteen years, people were being left with just four prints in the pound often when they entered watch so you actually had a martial arts nineteen six, but so still a little bit better.

  • It's considerably better.

  • The fact that people, which I would obviously in the future.

  • I'd like to hear it approve, but doing that, as you pointed out your interview suit.

  • It's extremely expensive, but yes, yeah, I'd like to, but earlier this year, the government did shift that marginal tax rate by two percent in the faith.

  • People who are claiming universal credit.

  • So we've already seen super stretch it's conservative M.P. Alex Burckhardt, thank you very much indeed.

  • Labour is the largest political party in Western Europe, declared Jeremy Corbin at the labour party conference this week.

  • Since he became party leader.

  • Two years ago, the membership has risen to at least five hundred fifty thousand with mass membership comes money and the electoral Commission reports that labour last year got ten times more money than met through membership fees, and the Conservatives, but who were the people who joined parties and how important are they for political success.

  • Tom Edgington from b. b. sees reality check has been looking at what's been happening inside both the labour and conservative party Bernie, I have the honour good r. n.

  • Prime, Winston Churchill, addressing the conservative party conference In nineteen fifty two, this was the decade when party activism was at its peak, the Conservatives had almost three million members, but the prediction of the general election have already in many Katie been altered.

  • But what about now.

  • The conservative membership is thought to be around one hundred and fifty thousand, but the exact number, it was a bit of a mystery as the party hasn't released any figure since twenty thirteen, but new research, which has been given to the B.B.C.'s sees reality check team has provided a snapshot about the people joining the mainstream parties, the data on the conservative party reveals that the party has got an age problem, just as it's got an age problem with the electorate.

  • And, in fact, those two things might be related, timbale Professor of politics at Queen Mary's London.

  • He's just completed a surfing one thousand conservative members and one thousand labour members following the twenty seventeen general election.

  • Forty per cent of conservative party members are over sixty five our data reveals, and very few of them are in the eighteen to twenty four bracket.

  • The other thing that you see when you look at conservative party members is quite how socially conservative, they are, he had a fit through the door.

  • If not, even in the age of social media political party still place a premium on House to House leafleting to get that message out, but Professor bales data reveals a big drop on the Number of conservative members who were prepared to go door knocking during June's general election conservative party members already do a little bit less than labour party members online.

  • As we've seen, they're not so bad at canvassing, for example, when it comes to delivering leaflets, which is another classic collection activity there certainly way behind the liberal Democrats in particular, but also labour so House, a conservative party responding George Freeman m. p. chairs the Prime Minister's policy board, it's his job to develop ideas that were renew the grassroots and attract new members.

  • Clearly, there is a real problem, and it's now quite urgent the age issue is really important.

  • We have a very strong senior citizen win, we've neglected are under forty membership.

  • And if we'd only talk to that is over sixty, we will end up only talking to ourselves, and this is a real challenge, which we're all gripping Mister Freeman believes that the party needs to alter its campaigning message in order to attract new followers, rather than helping hundreds of people every Saturday out delivering leaflets more powerful will be to make sure that when people knock people understand that under trees are may, and the domestic reforms that she put in place would our tattling with sensible policies.

  • Unlike Jeremy Corbin the grievances that he has harnessed last week, you organised an event to reach out to these very people, you're just describing in the role, the Prime Minister's given me.

  • I Put together.

  • Our first big tent ideas Festival to have an event where people who aren't yet party members or don't even ever want to be a party Member can come in and hear and feel the spirit of conservatism engage in the debate going to different tense and help shape policy thinking on housing on transport on energy on cost of living, new form of politics for the twenty first century.

  • That's more open and more inclusive.

  • The star of the campaign was you all have stop contrast of the Conservatives labour's membership reach five hundred fifty thousand over the summer, according to the electoral Commission, that's an increase from three hundred and ninety thousand at the start of last year, but who are they.

  • Professor bail says labour's had particular success with women who now make up half the membership in Manchester town hall around a dozen members of the labour women for him, are sitting round one of the Council's Committee room tables discussing a campaign against domestic violence, one of those taking part is Lauren, even though she's a new Member, she's been in the party before I struggled with my support for labour, labour went into the Iraq war, and then, two years ago, and Jeremy Coogan became leader, I'd join the day after, and I've been enthusiastically supporting labour ever sense, and what, in particular, about Jeremy copen that that appeal to you, I knew about Jeremy's piece work, and also, you know, he's Socially progressive policies Lauren represents one third of the labour membership typically supporters from the eighties and early nineties that have returned after many years away.

  • Sara is a local councillor, and the Vice chair of Manchester labour woman for him.

  • She says, new members have been drawn from all backgrounds.

  • I've seen a great diversity amongst new members, we do have very young members, but we've also, as you can see around this table older members who have joined some have rejoined, but also some people have joined, for the first time, because they've seen the impact of government policy austerity on themselves and their family members, and it's galvanise them into action.

  • The liberal Democrats and the S.N.P. have also increased their membership base.

  • Since the start of twenty sixteen whilst UKIP's has fallen, but the Conservatives still retain their financial advantage, courtesy of private donors in the free months running up to the general election, the Conservatives received almost twenty five million Pounds and donations that.

  • Sixty per cent more than all the other parties combined.

  • So that's party membership matter, the, timbale continues to be an essential part of democracy.

  • Most people join political parties, strangely enough, because they agree with them, ideologically, and they actually have a sense of, as it were, civic duty, they feel it's very important for people to get involved in politics, and they feel that they're the kind of people who can make a difference.

  • Professor, timbale ending that report By Tom Edgington, it's just after half past one, and the clock is ticking.

  • Ryanair have less than five hours left to issue a statement setting out how they will pay back hundreds of thousands of passengers are out of pocket.

  • After the mass cancellation of flights and explaining how they'll get them to their planned destination using other airlines, the five o'clock deadline has been set by the civil aviation authority.

  • And this isn't their only demand, the company has until Monday to draft a new email to passengers explaining their rights in full at the moment.

  • Ryanair's website, simply says that affected passengers will be offered alternative flights all full refunds Ryanair say they will meet with the civil aviation authority to discuss this, but the C.A.A. say they haven't received response to their request for a meeting with cannon and is the aviation Minister good afternoon, good afternoon.

  • What do you make of that news that Ryanair has not yet apparently responded to the request for the meeting.

  • Well, I hope they will do so, it's important to emphasise that matter of enforcement is down to the independent regulator, the sea, it wouldn't be appropriate for us to interfere in that, but I'm very pleased with the robust response that the C.A.A. are taking, and we support them.

  • One hundred percent.

  • How do you think Ryanair has behaved so far.

  • I think the Chief Executive of the C.A.A. described himself as furious.

  • And I think my mood Approaches that at the moment.

  • I think they're behaving disgracefully towards their their passengers, not least because it flies in the face of assurances that make lolly we gave me last week when I wrote to him to express my annoyance at the first round of three hundred thousand cancellations, he told me in a letter in response to that, that there would be no more cancellations.

  • I was somewhat surprised to see four hundred thousand cancellations announced this week.

  • You say you're annoyed about that.

  • Is there anything you can do about it.

  • Well, as a set the enforcement of these regulations is a matter for the C.A.A., I think you can see by the reaction of the C.A.A. and by the statements that they've issued that they're taking the matter extremely seriously, and we support them in that, in that we want to stand up, as the government for passengers.

  • In this case, do you think the Irish civil aviation authority is standing up for passengers, you have to ask them on that they are the home regulator of Ryanair, I on the civil aviation authority responsible for regulation in the U.K., what do you think's gone wrong.

  • It's hard to say.

  • I mean, there's been extensive media speculation, but I don't have any inside information about what Ryanair dude.

  • I've done wrong.

  • What I do know is that, so far, they seem to have cancelled and disrupted the holiday plans of about seven hundred thousand people, and That's not acceptable.

  • What do you think the impact on the company will be if they do comply with what the C.A.A. are asking, which is to find alternative flights for people on other airlines to pay them out of pocket expenses, and so on.

  • It's a huge amount of money, isn't it.

  • Well, it is but a hugely profitable company, I think, well, we all have a downer on hay and air at the moment, but it's important to say they have revolutionised air travel across Europe.

  • They have provided flights and services to places that at prices that people wouldn't otherwise have been able to get to, and they've they revolutionise the industry, but they can't do that, at the expense of consumer rights, these are right that exist in law, and that apply to all of the airlines, and it's important that Ryanair complies with them as well.

  • So I hope they will continue to offer a new route and innovative services, but they cannot do that, at the expense of disregarding their legal obligations cutting edge capitalism was not capitalism would be of passengers take notice of the services provided and then possibly move on to other carriers, that's his choice in the market that that is the brilliant thing about the U.K. aviation market.

  • We have one of the most competitive aviation market in the world, and that's a good thing caravan aviation, Minister, thank you very much indeed.

  • Thank you coming up the Battle of the spokes alone Taylor Hayden soldier spot the Mo bond glanced at the clock.

  • Now I'm fifteen, and I'd have bought you a drink, but I've got an appointment in London, can we hold it, the head of m.i.six had hit her George smiley over James bond any time a double o. seven fanatic tells us in a moment.

  • Why the real life aim is love him or loathe him, he'd surely affect, but for years, Nigel farraj was the face of UKIP is outsized personality and pity quotes, propelling the party to prominence forcing David Cameron to hold that referendum.

  • And, in the end, getting exactly what he wanted.

  • But for this party nothing as failed quite like success since my farraj resigned twice the party struggle to replace him. haven't got through to other leaders in less than twelve months now at their conference in Torquay, they're choosing again, what is UKIP's route to electoral success, who will they pick Rob Ford is Professor of political science at Manchester University.

  • You kipper and unpredictable bunch at the best of times.

  • This is a race with her a lot of candidates and without clear front runners in terms of profile, as has been the case in the past.

  • I mean, Amory waters has attracted a lot of attention because of a controversial past, but it's not at all clear how popular those views are with the U.K. memberships.

  • Indeed, it's not at all clear who the UKIP Membership, it is at the moment, even in terms of its members who are signed up, certainly in terms of members who will turn out to vote in this election.

  • So it's a very hard one to call you mention a controversial views in the past.

  • Well, she has a past Association, with an organisation called Shariah watch U.K., she's been very stridently outspoken in criticism of Islam and Muslims, a lot of that kind of language is more familiar to the radical right parties in Europe, such as the front national France, sort of freedom party in the Netherlands, we have seen that kind of thing discussed by, for example, the E.D.L. who seem to be keen on her as a potential leader, so it's the sort of strident anti Islam stance that that has become more frequent part of radical right politics elsewhere, but hasn't really bin front and centre in the U.K.. before, and why do you think that is that it hasn't played much part in British right wing populist movement.

  • Well, it's been there in the background.

  • I think the reason it hasn't been there in the foreground with UKIP, in particular, is because they're organising focus was always the European Union.

  • So, what are they attracted stronger support from voices who are less keen on immigration multiculturalism more concerns about Islam and Islamic extremism that wasn't their reasons for exists, that was kind of there in the background, so they tended to keep the Focus on the e., but now that the issue of the E.U. is moving into a kind of settlement site is the people who founded you kipper like they're getting what they found that it gets in terms of Britain, leaving the question becomes, what, what should you tip focus on and one asked that question, which is frequent answer elsewhere in Europe.

  • For this kind of party is focus on the problems of multiculturalism and Islamic extremism.

  • So that's, that's why we're seeing that now, I suppose, the other way, they could do is to put themselves as their defenders of bricks it a hard bricks it accusing the Conservatives have not delivering what they promised.

  • Although I suppose that's also a time limited, it potentially, but it.

  • I mean, what one can see the sense in that kind of a strategy.

  • At some point, because we know that the Conservatives gains an awful lot of support from you kip in the election in June.

  • It's a very strong correlation between how far you could sell, and how much the Conservatives rose.

  • We also know that those voters have extraordinarily high expectations regarding what will changed with Brecht's and a very low trust basis.

  • So, at some point, they're likely to be disappointed.

  • And when they're disappointed.

  • They're likely to be Swiss to blame the government that disappoints them, that's at that point, one would think that you could get a hearing from those faces again, but it's not Clear when that point will come as a very important point, isn't it.

  • Because we always read the next election as though it's the last election, and you're saying that it may not be a repetition things may change really significant absolutely, I think if there's one lesson we can take from the past few years, in British politics, it's them things can change very rapidly.

  • We have an electorate that is no longer his tribe Lee attached to parties, as it used to be that's shown a willingness to switch sides in very large numbers.

  • You could support went up by more than ten percentage points in twenty fifteen it went down again by more than ten percentage points, and twenty seventeen were about to go through one of the biggest shifts in our international political, economic situations in post war history in itself is reason enough to think that a pro a promiscuous electorate may well make another large shift in the election to come, it would be foolish to predict what that shift would be, but it's easy to see how you could be part of it.

  • Professor Robb Ford.

  • Now it's him bond glanced at the clock.

  • Now I'm fifteen, I'd like to have bought you a drink, but I've got an appointment in London, can we hold it over the range Officer nodded noncommittal it funny time to have an appointment in London, probably a girl, sort of fellow, I've got all the girls he Wanted James bond's appointment was not with a girl that was with a B.A. flight to Hanover in Berlin verses him tinker I line tamer Hayden soldier spot the mole quite wakes me will go on, make use of the appropriate Embassy send a signal to the head of London station something, something, something which we'll now call the real life.

  • M. the head of m.i.six Sir Alec's younger has been musing on the relative merits of fictional spies admitting in the economist, the wildlife may not follow art.

  • There is what he calls the, strong feedback loop.

  • So he declares, I'll take the quiet courage and integrity of George smiley over the brash antics of double o. seven any day, it's hardly a surprise.

  • John the carers smiley doggedly pursuing a version of the truth.

  • Morning the domestic betrayal of his wife and rather wishing you could concentrate on the glories of German poetry.

  • Instead, while cleaning his glasses, with the fat end of his tie probably resonates more in Whitehall than the Martini swilling gun wielding explosion inducing bed wrecking James bond, who, after all, clash continually with his bureaucratic boss Ajay Terry is editor of the Journal the James bond international fan Club.

  • Good afternoon afternoon mark bond would sorry carry on.

  • Well, I was going to say, of course, George smiley would be more appealing to the sort of bureaucratic sort of a Desk Jockey agent and m.i.six, and I don't think anyone is really suggesting Otherwise, but I do think we're sort of comparing le carry oranges with Fleming pears, because James bond is really a sort of counter insurgency agents, and a kind of more S.A.S.SB.S. type, and, I think, in reality, I think, in these days, James bond is more of a kind of cultural and spiritual figurehead for the British armed forces and an m.i.six, I think that's where James bond's strength, probably lies, he admits he would be a bit of a liability in the real spy Agency, I am, but I'm pretty sure, although I've just co written and eight hundred trays biography of the James bond films had Maquis feel called some kind of hero, and in their wee wee wee wee research the history of Ian Fleming's real life's espionage adventures during world war, two as part of the naval intelligence and the novels by inflaming out much more nuance and based on a real sort of events and extrapolated from real things, and in the nobles bond is not the kind of filmic creation that would come to know and love, although Daniel Craig has got much more that nuance complexity, the nobles that have a moral relativism that Carrie finds would be familiar with and also kinda human quality that is much more in keeping with quote unquote.

  • The reality of espionage in if one research is real life espionage, oftentimes, it's a fantastical than any fiction make could ever conjure do you think bond Would have been a bit chippy about the way he was seen because somebody was telling me that in one of the, I think it's one of the films, rather than the books.

  • He says, I have got a double first in oriental languages from Oxford, you know, something like that.

  • Well, here we're getting the schism between film bombed and the books in the books, Ian Fleming's James bond was kicked out of Eton and doesn't complete and education learns languages in, in the end, kids, Poland and Germany, and that's more, he was a real life, education, of course, the film's Sean Connery and Daniel Craig and Roger Moore can do everything, but the books, the Ian Fleming books in the continuation wontons a new one by Anthony are rich, which are very kind of much more nuanced instructed remember bombed effectively recreated the genre, the spy genre and la Carrie and George, I've got a stuffy there tha Ajay Terry thanks very much P.M.s have five, this is mum.

  • That's the world that one forty five, you can find more podcasts of documentaries and current Affairs or b. b. c. dot co dot U.K. slash podcasts.