You're listening to a podcast from the today programme on B.B.C. radio four, and has been an enormous amount of coverage and comment on the death of Hugh Hefner, he's been praised as one of the great magazine editors of a time, amongst other things, and damned for what Sarah vine in the mail.
This morning, describes as his toxic legacy to women.
Well, I'm joined by a woman who not only knew him well, but achieved fame notoriety.
Perhaps, as the first fall frontal nude a model for Playboy, and then she is with me Marilyn Cole good morning to you.
Good morning to you.
Did you have any misgivings about doing that.
All those years ago.
Forty odd years ago.
Well, it was nineteen seventy, when I was working in the co op fuel Office in the station yard in Fratton station in Portsmouth, where I was born, and in twelve Pounds a week as a clerk a girlfriend of mine had come to London, and she said, look, you know, come live in London, and I thought, well, I'm earning twelve Pounds a week.
How can I live in London, and her name was Marilyn as well, and she said, there's a place called the Playboy Club.
Apparently, you just have to go there and smile, and you will earn a lot of money.
We had to have other attributes as well, didn't you.
I mean, apart From a nice smile.
You had to have a body that was look good in a very, very low cut top by the bunny costume enhanced our bodies and people do they all assume we had to have certain measurements, yes, and we didn't, because that was the joy of, actually, I think it was for a genius thing, because girls who became bunnies had all sorts of figures, they did not have to be large breasted they look at me.
It certainly looked that way, they didn't know because of the costume, we're geniuses got, but when it went.
Basically, it really was about smile, and it was about having a pleasant face and good skin and hair and teeth right, but you went on beyond that, didn't you.
You pose eyeball.
The magazine hide when they said, will you pose naked full frontal, because we'd seen bare in Newspapers before magazines, when they said full frontal didn't you think, Oh, they did never say that, to me, Oh, they never said that this, what happened was, I became a bunny.
Girl, and that allows the Playboy Club in which I think you have nerve for the fact that I did meet, isn't it.
To lands, and he asked the photographer who, when you become a bunny.
Girl, you were trainee, and you had to have their photograph taken in costume for the headquarters in Chicago, and the photographer, a resident photographer Victor lands came in and said, I Suggest you photograph that girl or Tester for her playmate, right now, I had never, I didn't really know what a playmate was or Playboy I knew were Playboy magazine was, and I knew there was a nude centrefold, however, at that time, there was no suggestion of full frontal nudity know when you, so we don't have terribly long, I'm afraid.
So basically, what happened was there without my knowing penthouse was becoming a serious contender to Playboy.
So hasn't had to make a decision, as this is a business decision as to whether to go full frontal, in other words, show pubic hair.
And on the Playboy centrefold he actually didn't particularly want to, but the pressure was rising, and you did, and I didn't know that I was it, yes, Hobbs knots it, they didn't say, this is the girl who's going to do, but it's a little bit of you say, no, I doubt that'll be just too embarrassing, and what my mother think and what effect will it have on other people and all that.
Did you ever think that I did, however, I was brought up to be myself, and I was brought up to be independent.
In those days, they did drape for girls, and it was not full frontal, so I sought a whizz term got my temporary passport.
My mother said, Oh, no, where are you going now.
I said, I'm going to Chicago, and I'm going to use for my Work mother, and it was, well, it was a five here mum.
I'm going to pose naked full front.
No, it was five thousand dollars for the photograph.
Oh yes, that was it.
Just a little thought.
Look at that.
Let me just get serious for a minute, if I may, I do know you, you'll have your them, obviously read a lot of the stuff that's been written about you have, and the influence that he played and Playboy clubs magazines, everything has had, let me just quote.
Do you from something that Sarah vine wrote in the mail.
This morning, she said, a world where being old or ugly, or fat, or just a bit shy, he's a distinct disadvantage, where the way you look in a sequin encrusted song is more important than family friendships or, dare I say it, faith, and this is the world that he who have helped to create.
Do you agree with that.
Absolutely not Hefner was surrounded by friends and family.
When he died when I started a Playboy started with it a trainee bunny called bunny Barbara Barbara, Hey, from Liverpool.
She was with me at my husband's death bed.
We started work together forty six years ago as trainee bunnies, we have an incredible comrade conradin went about all of that soil, and we didn't wear sequined songs, O.K., look at that be better researcher and anther and anything.
There was nothing toxic about Hugh Hefner Victor Lads or Playboy.
I think dishonest journalism is toxic, I'm Nick Robinson and on my political thinking podcast, or try to give you something that you might not get even listening to the today programme pulling the curtain back a bit on politics, no spin, no sound bites no lime, to take just political thinking.